Curse

Lyphen · Jun 20, 2009, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Having spent time playing since the update, I've quickly become jaded with the ritualist changes. It was really exciting to see so many changes, but when you think about it, the majority were just based on speeding up set-up time, which really wasn't my main problem with ritualists in the first place

So, this patch was a really decent step, and I was happy to see rits get some attention, but it hasn't solved the classes' problems. I've got a few ideas, feel free to change some around and come up with your own.

Making useless skills like...the majority of the Channeling line (Lamentation, Renewing Surge) interesting. It's nukes need to be buffed, because as it is now, they're incredibly weak, and with ridiculous cooldowns.
Fixing Vampirism and Signet of Spirit's targeting glitches.
It'd be nice if shorter-lasting weapon buffs scaled better after 12. For example, Warding at 10 SP and 14 Restoration: 12s pre, 11.2 post. 10 without any investment in SP pre-patch. So shorter weapon buffs saw a nerf for ritualists aswell, who need to invest a heafty amount into SP to get a 1s gain over pre-patch.
Making the Communing spirits more durable. Even with Armor of the Unfeeling, it's pretty rough. A purely personal request, only affecting party members, would greatly help with MM team. As a guideline, spirits should at least be 2/3rds as effective (durable) as an imbagon's shouts, considering how much of the bar has to be invested in it, and with so little energy management available outside of Assassin's Promise.
Speaking of energy management, Ritual Lord giving 5 energy per binding ritual? Spirit-spamming builds do need energy management (or at least, the protective ones do, as they're still 15-25e).
The new Spiritleech Aura doesn't belong in Restoration.

So, this patch was a really decent step, and I was happy to see rits get some attention, but it hasn't solved the classes' problems.

lewis91 · Jun 20, 2009, 04:44 AM // 04:44

I actually find spirit spamming fun now, within 4ish seconds i can get 7 spirits which is fun with painful bond.

Quote:

Fixing Vampirism and Signet of Spirit's targeting glitches.

Along with them two, Spirit Siphon needs to be fixed too, if your targeting a foe out of earshot, and you have spirits all around you, and you activate spirit siphon, you'l actually run upto the enemy and then activate the skill which is annoying as hell.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 20, 2009, 05:33 AM // 05:33

I find that they need more e-management. Playing a Rit isn't my thing, but anything else works. Maybe in spawning power

"for each rank in s power, you gain +1e whenever a spirit is created,gained,or dies, of yours, in earshot. This cannot be used more than 5 times in 10 seconds to gain energy."

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 20, 2009, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyphen

the majority were just based on speeding up set-up time, which really wasn't my main problem with ritualists in the first place

It kinda was my main problem with spirits, that and frailty.

Now I can get them up quickly (I hate standing around long cast times) and keep them alive longer.

Of course, I'm all in favour of more buffs, but I'm content for now with what we got.

Holy Ritualst · Jun 20, 2009, 06:02 AM // 06:02

i think rits where just fine befor this update

FoxBat · Jun 20, 2009, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Armor-based nuking is generally garbage in HM, see eles. Arage/spirit rift are relatively good vs eles for their energy costs, and I didn't even bring up splinter or OoS or now-super offensive spirits in the same line.

Armor of unfeeling interacts with union/that blocking skill in a sick matter. The only one notably left out is shelter, which I'm surprised they didn't at least dock the cost of. Fixing the minion interaction is probably tricky, since no spirit in the game targets party members.

Lhim · Jun 20, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

^Restoration and Rejuvenation.

This is a great update for the most part for offensive spirit spamming. Faster casting times etc are great. However, offensive spirit spamming wasn't the biggest problem. The combo of Signet of Ghostly Might + Painful Bond + Summon Spirits + A bunch of Spirits already was pretty good actually. With some smart usage of Summon Spirits you could keep them alive with no problem.

They didn't do much about weapon spells in a whole. Even forcing you into SP to get the same duration for the weapon spells that will last their full duration. But most of the weapon spells end on a trigger. I would like to see something done about them. Weapon Spells are just as Spirits unique for Rits, but the update didn't do anything for them. The 4% longer duration doesn't cut it for me.

snaek · Jun 20, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

the buff makes spirit spamming easier to play...though doesn't really make spirit spamming all that more effective than it was before.

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 20, 2009, 07:52 AM // 07:52

More durable spirits. Faster spirit replacement. A skill that gives us three new spirits, with only one slot needed, while serving as a fast energy fill-up (Boon).

It's a very nice improvement in effectiveness.

Daisuko · Jun 20, 2009, 08:55 AM // 08:55

spirit spamming is fun, but not very effective (against groups of foes) it's mainly good in dungeons or similar areas with high-hp foes to deal enormous dps to a single target. also, as for spirit fun.... http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1117/gw173s.jpg

but seriously, pretty much most skills need a buff for rits.

spiritleech aura needs to be put into channeling, and possibly also give a net bonus to damage instead of merely damage conversion... changing armor-ignoring into life stealing doesn't matter that much.

I'd like it if painful bond was changed to... "Whenever hexed foe takes damage from a spirit, all other foes hexed with painful bond take that damage as well"

clamor of souls should deal damage based on how many spirits are within earshot... something like.. at 15 channeling... target foe and all nearby foes take 20 damage for every spirit within earshot... or maybe target and nearby foes take 30 damage for every spirit within earshot of that foe... and remove the energy back.

Destructive Was Glaive... remove the drop damage, instead make the AP scale, maybe 1.5% per rank of channel... 24% at 16, 1% less than most air magic skills.

essence strike should also give energy based on number of spirits... capping it off as well... making it more like 1..4 energy per spirit in earshot, max of 1..15 (1 per rank of channeling)

gaze from beyond... should destroy the nearest friendly spirit, and deal 1..15 (again one damage per rank of channeling) damage per level of that spirit. (level 13 spirit = 208 damage at 16 channel

lamentation... reduce recharge to 15... change to "target foe takes 2..30 (2 per channeling rank) lightning damage per corpse within earshot of that foe

Renewing surge... change description to... "if this spell kills a foe, all your channeling magic skills recharge instantly"

spirit burn... increase recharge to 8, increase energy cost to 10, change description to... for each spirit within earshot, 1 foe near your target begins burning for 1..3 seconds

spirit boon strike... change to... hits one foe per friendly spirit within earshot

destruction... increase recharge to 30 seconds, increase energy cost to 10, change description to.. "Whenever a foe within range of this spirit takes lightning damage, it takes 1% more damage per rank of channeling magic"

caretaker's charge... change description to... heals all adjacent allies for 1 health per 2 damage this skill deals.

spirit rift... increase energy cost to 15, increase recharge to 20, change description to... for 5..20 seconds, whenever a spirit is destroyed in this ward, all adjacent foes take 15..50 damage.

spirit siphon... remove all energy from all spirits nearby you, you gain 10...25% of the energy lost by each spirit.

splinter weapon : change damage type to piercing.

weapon of aggression : reduce duration to 1..5 seconds, change to... target ally has a weapon of aggression, that ally deals +10..25 damage with attacks, renewal on hit.

weapon of fury... add 25% faster attack speed to skill description.

wielder's strike... change to remove target foe's weapon spell, deals 20..80 damage if a weapon spell is removed.

all of these would be PvE skill changes, of course. That's the rough idea I get for channeling skills off the top of my head...

edit : got plenty of ideas for other rit skills too, but then again everyone probably thinks my ideas are terrible, so no point rambling on more than I have :P

Zahr Dalsk · Jun 20, 2009, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisuko

I'd like it if painful bond was changed to... "Whenever hexed foe takes damage from a spirit, all other foes hexed with painful bond take that damage as well"

That'd be amazingly powerful. Basically... the time it would take spirits to kill one enemy of a group, all enemies with the same health would be killed too.

Still, I'd like it.

tom999 · Jun 20, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I agree with lewis, it is a lot more fun now.

Also I find combining Boon of creation and Signet of Spirits ample energy management. 0 energy to cast and, at 12 SP, + 15 energy for making the spirits. I think the updates have injected new life into the ritualist but deffinitely agreed that more buffs are needed like to the resto line to make rits more powerful healers.

Something like change mend body and soul to SP and remove 1 hex and 1 condition if you are within earshot of a spirit, but still with the heal.

Also I find it hard to keep track of which spirits are alive so maybe introduce a Spirit moniter that tells you how many spirits are alive, something like the Necro's minion counter.

Daisuko · Jun 20, 2009, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

That'd be amazingly powerful. Basically... the time it would take spirits to kill one enemy of a group, all enemies with the same health would be killed too.

Still, I'd like it.

yeah, but notice I said "damage" meaning vampirism and bloodsong wouldn't trigger that effect... plus, it could be scaled down to making other foes take a percentage of damage, such as 15..75% of the damage the initial foe took.

Daisuko · Jun 20, 2009, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom999

I agree with lewis, it is a lot more fun now.

Also I find combining Boon of creation and Signet of Spirits ample energy management. 0 energy to cast and, at 12 SP, + 15 energy for making the spirits. I think the updates have injected new life into the ritualist but deffinitely agreed that more buffs are needed like to the resto line to make rits more powerful healers.

Something like change mend body and soul to SP and remove 1 hex and 1 condition if you are within earshot of a spirit, but still with the heal.

Also I find it hard to keep track of which spirits are alive so maybe introduce a Spirit moniter that tells you how many spirits are alive, something like the Necro's minion counter.

that's actually a decent idea... but lower mend body and soul's healing to around 50 at 15 resto, so the main thing would be hex/condition removal... and make it more like removes 1 condition per spirit in earshot and 1 hex per 3 spirits in earshot.

EDIT : also, several spawning power skills should be buffed to encourage primary rits.

empowerment : change from "item spell" to "weapon spell" as very few party members generally carry items.

ghostly haste : change to "while within earshot of a spirit, ritualist spells cast and recharge 25% faster"

Doom : change to a hex spell, making it cause -1..3 health degen per spirit you control, for 1..15 seconds.

Renewing Memories : change to a self-weapon spell; change description to "for each recharging ritualist skill, you gain 0..1 energy for every 2 recharging ritualist skill"

Reclaim essence : change to... destroy all allied spirits within earshot, for each spirit destroyed, one nearby ally gains 1..15 energy and 30..120 health. 10 energy, 2 cast, 15 recharge.

Spirit Channeling : change to... destroy all nearby spirits. For each spirit destroyed, you gain 1..5 seconds of 0...6 energy regeneration and 1 skill (except for this skill) is recharged per spirit destroyed.

Spirit to Flesh : reduce recharge to 10 seconds, change to... the nearest allied spirit is destroyed, target ally gains health equal to 20..100% of that spirit's current health.

Wielder's Zeal : change to... "While under the effects of a weapon spell, you gain 1...2 energy each time you cast a spell on an ally.

Unreal Havoc · Jun 20, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom999

I agree with lewis, it is a lot more fun now.

Also I find combining Boon of creation and Signet of Spirits ample energy management. 0 energy to cast and, at 12 SP, + 15 energy for making the spirits. I think the updates have injected new life into the ritualist but deffinitely agreed that more buffs are needed like to the resto line to make rits more powerful healers.

Something like change mend body and soul to SP and remove 1 hex and 1 condition if you are within earshot of a spirit, but still with the heal.

Also I find it hard to keep track of which spirits are alive so maybe introduce a Spirit moniter that tells you how many spirits are alive, something like the Necro's minion counter.

I currently use that skill combo along with Mantra of Inscriptions to speed up the signet recharge.

I'm using something like this at the moment until I figure out something better:

[build prof=Ritualist/Me spawning=11+1 inspir=10 Restor=10+1+1][Mend Body and Soul][Soothing Memories][Spirit Light][Feast of Souls][Signet of Spirits][Mantra of Inscriptions][Spirits Gift][Boon of Creation][/build]

Dawn Angelheart · Jun 20, 2009, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Ill just say this as its what stood out.

Renewing Surge + might was vorizon = constant Dps.

gg.

Daisuko · Jun 20, 2009, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Angelheart

Ill just say this as its what stood out.

Renewing Surge + might was vorizon = constant Dps.

gg.

except that I suggested to change the description, not add that onto it. :P in short renewing surge would be similar to assassin's promise, but only effecting channeling magic skills, if you killed a foe with it, and would not instantly recharge if you were holding an item anymore.

Longasc · Jun 20, 2009, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom999

Also I find it hard to keep track of which spirits are alive so maybe introduce a Spirit moniter that tells you how many spirits are alive, something like the Necro's minion counter.

Why not. Just use a spirit image and put a counter on it, just like for minions. It is not that necessary, but it would be nice.

In PvP, Ritualists now lose flexibility as they need Spawning Power to get their Weapon Spells up to old levels. Other classes cannot use them as well anymore, on the other hand. This can be good or not, depending on your preferences.

In PvE, Spiritwalls are deadly and extremely powerful. Even with glitches.

So yeah, Spirits ARE now definitely viable. I would say they even beat Necros when it comes to PvE power. They are overbuffed, and we have just begun exploring the possibilities.

zwei2stein · Jun 20, 2009, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Angelheart

Ill just say this as its what stood out.

Renewing Surge + might was vorizon = constant Dps.

gg.

Worse than flare x,x

Lhim · Jun 20, 2009, 10:27 AM // 10:27

I'd like more consideration for weapon spells.

In the old SP thread some ppl suggested that for every X ranks of Spawning Power your other ritualist attributes are increased by 1. And of course the 4%health bonus to animated/created.

I think this could work, making rit spells better for Rit primaries. But it might be a bit too much with the recent changes. So how about:

**For every rank in SP your animated/created creatures gain 4% more health and your weapon spells gain 4% more effectiveness.**

Meaning the 4% effectiveness for weapon spells would affect the variable. So in Weapon of Warding it would affect duration and health regen. With Xinrae's Weapon it would affect the ammount of life-stealing (and not the duration).....would seem more logical to me, as most weapon spells end on a trigger, so lenghtened duration is useless then.